“My goal with scientific work is to create a social impact, moving beyond the traditional confines of sharing science solely among academics in written form. That’s why I pursue podcasts and value our community.”

Mert Kocak is a Fellow at the Cologne International Forum and spent a week with us in Cologne at the end of June and beginning of July. During this time, Mert Kocak and their research partner Elfican Celebi organized a two-day workshop on gender, migration and digitalization. Mert Kocak also shared their research with us at the SALON on June 27: Constructing the deserving refugee: EU Financial Aid to Turkey and Refugee Governance. Mert Kocak's presentation was the beginning of an exciting discussion.

Cologne International Forum:
Hi Mert Kocak! Nice to be talking to you again, I'm really looking forward to it.  We met at our SALON event on June 27th. How have you been since then?

Mert Kocak:
After the SALON  evening, we hosted a workshop that brought together people working on care economy, digitalization, and transnationalism. It was an incredible way to spark collaboration, and it inspired us to explore these issues even further. We had already planned to address these issues in our podcast Transnational Care, which explores the complex intersections of migration, labor, and technology in the global care economy, But it was exciting to see all the workshop participants eager to get involved. So far, we’ve filmed four episodes, and we've also invited others from the care sector who couldn’t attend the workshop to join us. Now, we’re working with them too, and we're hoping to keep this podcast running for as long as possible. We’re aiming for at least eight episodes, and we'll see where it goes from there. Right now, our focus is on writing the grant application to ensure the collaboration between me and Elifcan Celebi continues.

Thank you  for the update! Back when we welcomed you for a SALON event, you gave a presentation  on Constructing the deserving refugee: EU Financial Aid to Turkey and Refugee Governance. Perhaps you could summarize some keypoints of the talk.

When I give a talk aimed towards the general public, the first thing I want to make clear is that when we talk about refugee populations, it’s not just about a country making a decision—like granting someone refugee status—and that’s the end of it. It’s never that simple. The refugee system is transnational, and navigating it is incredibly complex. Even if you understand the whole system, it’s still mind-boggling how complicated it is. And it’s truly unbelievable that people manage to go through it. This really shows that knowledge comes from lived experience—you don’t just learn it by studying. Refugees have developed these incredible networks of information on their own. It’s amazing how resilient and informed they are about the system and how well they grasp its transnational nature.
That’s why, when I speak to a broader audience, I aim to explain the system in a clear and open way, without overwhelming them with complex theories. I think we succeeded in doing that at the SALON, where we had such a diverse group, including undergraduates. They were really engaged and present. Based on the questions I received, I felt like I was able to convey some of the deeper emotions and insights I’ve gathered.

Yes, how connected, intense and specific these people's experiences were definitely struck me in your narrative. Perhaps you could share a bit more about how you’ve conducted the interviews?

Yes, of course... I deliberately avoided asking specific questions about crossing borders, which is often a focal point for researchers. Instead, I just sat down and listened to their life stories without making borders a key part of the conversation. So, when the people I interviewed  realized I was letting them speak freely, I think it opened doors to more meaningful connections. For example, in the first six months, I couldn’t interview LGBT migrants and refugees because the trust wasn’t there yet, but after that, things started to change.

Is this project still ongoing, or how are you currently engaging with it?

This project is actually my Ph.D. thesis, which has already been published—I graduated about a year ago. Right now, I’m in a bit of a transition phase, figuring out what’s next. Of course, I’d love to write a book, but I’m also in contact with people across Europe, in different countries, where I hope to have the chance to observe what happens after they flee Turkey. As I explained in my presentations, asylum seekers can’t stay in Turkey indefinitely. They usually stay for about seven years, which isn’t exactly short, but it’s far from permanent. In fact, we don’t even call it refugee status in Turkey—it’s more of a temporary protection, and it’s not unlimited. I won’t bore you with the legal terminology, but that’s the situation.

So you tried to construct the aftermath of these transnational processes of refugees?

Yes. During my research, I was in four different cities in Turkey, where I focused on reconstructing transnational relationships. From one perspective, you can see these cross-border connections play out in a very effective way. But now, I want to add another layer to this, looking at how the same transnational relationships unfold in different cities across Europe. For example in Sweden, where refugees are still maintaining connections with people back in Iran and Turkey, helping others navigate asylum processes while simultaneously dealing with their own challenges. Even after reaching Europe, they continue navigating different legal systems to secure crucial protections. That’s the broader perspective I’m exploring now.
While in Turkey, I saw how these relationships impacted people in countries like Iran, Syria, and even places like Spain, Italy, and Sweden. For example, if you're an asylum seeker from Iran in Turkey, you have to narrate your life in Turkey to show that you deserve to be resettled in a "safer" country, while also narrating your life in Iran to prove you need protection. On top of that, you aim to connect with people in countries like Sweden or Spain to figure out how to move forward.
Now, I want to shift the focus to places like Sweden, where refugees are still maintaining connections with people back in Iran and Turkey, helping others navigate asylum processes while simultaneously dealing with their own challenges. Even after reaching Europe, they continue navigating different legal systems to secure crucial protections. That’s the broader perspective I’m exploring now.

It's fascinating! You have to expand the scope of transnational studies if you want to truly grasp all the networks that come into play when navigating different countries.  Perhaps one last question: Could you share a little about your experience as a Tandem partner and a SALON speaker at the Cologne International Forum?

Honestly, it has been truly amazing. I'm not just saying that—public sociology is something I'm genuinely passionate about. It’s why I engage in podcasts and work with NGOs alongside my academic pursuits.

As academics, I believe we have a responsibility to produce research that’s accessible and easy to understand. That’s why I found the SALON meeting so fulfilling; it brought together individuals from diverse backgrounds, including undergraduates and others. I thrive on the questions that arise during these interactions because they often highlight perspectives I may have overlooked.

It’s remarkable how participants can help complete the narrative I present. By keeping things straightforward and avoiding overly complex theories, I create space for meaningful engagement and co-creation of knowledge. To me, this collaborative approach makes much more sense. My goal with scientific work is to create a social impact, moving beyond the traditional confines of sharing science solely among academics in written form. That’s why I pursue podcasts and value our community, as it offers us the incredible opportunity to be creative with the academic knowledge we produce.

Thank you very much!